May 23, 2005

Bill Kurtis, longtime host of A&E's American Justice, one of its highest-rated prime-time shows, and producer of Cold Case Files [during the New York upfront]

Shirley Brady: Bill, what's your impression of tonight's event?

Bill Kurtis: I've been here 15 years. And I see A&E growing into a network that is much closer to a commercial network like ABC, NBC and CBS. You know they would be happy to have 24 and The Sopranos, and that blew me over when they said 70% of the episodes have not been seen by American viewers yet. So it's different, but it's good to grow.

Brady: Have you been checking out A&E's new shows?

Kurtis: I watched Dog the Bounty Hunter the other night and I kind of got it: the essence of this kind of reality television. There was a conversation that Duane was having with Matt and you got the thread of the story, which was the chase, and then they were arguing over a personal matter, and his wife said "be a leader, tell your son," and I thought, my God, I've had that conversation. So I took to them and found them extremely interesting. It's interesting people doing unusual things. Now if you don't have those people who can carry it, the show won't work as well. It's an evolution at A&E and I'm happy to be part of it-happy to still be there.

Brady: How do your shows fit in?

Kurtis: I produce Cold Case Files and host American Justice and did Investigative Reports. I'm from the old-school documentary techniques and I like them, but how far do you go to grow? In my many years in the business I've come to the conclusion that you should do what you do best and not develop head pains over everybody else. Just do your job and let other young people with good ideas and techniques do their thing.

Brady: A lot has changed in your years making television.

Kurtis: What we're really seeing is the development of technology: small cameras that can go anywhere and get all those angles and its effect on television programming. It's like movies taking the big cameras off the tripod and moving them around. We're now taking cameras that have that capability right to ordinary people and finding out that they're really interesting. We had those hints a long time ago but now through the technology we're able to make that happen.

Brady: But despite these new technologies-and we've certainly seen the impact of blogging in the past year-TV viewers still deserve solid reporting and analysis that's grounded in good journalism.

Kurtis: I hope that I can provide that. I kind of feel like the granddad here at A&E and I'm glad to play that role. I'm not critical of these folks at all, I enjoy their shows and wish them every success. It's like when they asked me to be in the Will Ferrell movie Anchorman and I did it and it was a lot of fun, and it was like working with your grandchildren. You feed off that energy and creativity of the young people, so that's the wisdom of old age.

Brady: With network news under attack, and living as we do in a time of change and turmoil, do you think people want to go back to those brands that they trust, including television brands like A&E?

Kurtis: Yes. That's why it's such an important period. That was always the strength of Walter Cronkite. He was the trusted face that was in your living room that was always there. Now the three anchors are leaving it does seem like it's unsettling for a lot of people. We know it has to come some time, but to come all at once… So maybe we fill that role. Our ratings have never been higher so we're right up there at the top and I've never been gladder to be where I want to be, which is A&E.

Brady: Do you think the ongoing love affair with reality television might spark an interest in the type of nonfiction television that you specialize in making?

Kurtis: I hope that as we have a landscape that is filled with bloggers and "just turn the camera on and let it happen," that what becomes unusual and interesting will be that hard news documentary. And I hope I'll stick around long enough to see that.

Brady: A&E is getting ready to launch the Crime and Investigation Network. Will you be involved with that?

Kurtis: Yes. Right now it's at the early stage and without any original programming. It's a good place to put all the library programming, but the next step is to make some original programming. I'm a lawyer and it's really satisfying to see all aspects of the judicial system being explored. Look at Law & Order-they've gone crazy extending that brand. U.S. News and World Report talks about the CSI effect, that people are being educated [by these types of shows]. The forensic degrees that young people are going after shows that education can be so effective in wrapping it in this mystery, but you have hard science on TV and it's fascinating to people. I don't know. I just think it's a pretty good time.

Brady: Along with entertainment or scripted justice programming, are people thirsting for solid facts in nonfiction programming?

Kurtis: I think so. Look at how Discovery has gone off in another direction. Court TV calls itself the investigation network but people come back to us as the tried and true, and as long as we can continue to be original, creative and offer new product-and that's a challenge because they put us on every hour. When something is good I guess they tend to go with it-I think we'll continue to attract an audience.

Brady: Every network, cable in particular, faces the challenge of expanding its audience while remaining true to its core brand values and somehow not alienating its core audience.

Kurtis: Yes. "Satisfy your tribe," as they say. It's a balance. How do you balance doing new things without changing too much where you lose focus?

[Sopranos' actor Vincent Curatola, aka Johnny Sack, comes over to Kurtis' table and leans into the tape recorder]

Vincent Curatola: I watch A&E all day long. I like Cold Case Files and I love this guy. I spotted him immediately and had to come say hi. He's the new Walter Cronkite! Everyone believes him.

[Bob DeBitetto also stops by Kurtis' table]

DeBitetto: When I got here two years ago, Cold Case Files was a critical part of our strategy. We probably would not have been able to launch some of the franchises that we did with the success that we did if we didn't have that platform. It was just about the most powerful thing that we had going for us. So we owe an awful lot to that franchise. When they came aboard they had that one very strong prime-time program. But they were very smart and they built around it. First of all they focused on it and built around it with all this programming and it's like weaving a quilt, you have The Sopranos now, CSI: Miami, 24-it's all there and it all fits. That's programming and we have not had it for a long time. Nobody seemed to have a strategy.

Brady: Do you hope that in A&E's drive to bring in younger audiences that will also have a halo effect for your shows?

Kurtis: Yes, I was just going to make that point. In this search for the young audience, our audience has come down but it's interesting. I'm 64 and one could easily put me in that other category, but for some strange reason young people like me and like Cold Case Files. Maybe I'm so old I'm hip, or so old I'm in. I don't know, you tell me. In particular we've got a big female audience. Women become addicted to it.

Brady: What do you think of TV's chase for younger demos? After all, they may rack up credit card bills, but they're also paying off school loans and playing video games and instant messaging and going out every night. It seems that a demo like young retirees, who have more leisure time and are educated and have disposable income now that the kids have left home and are passionate and curious and have time to engage with brands and expand their interests would be an attractive audience. Yet they're being ignored in this race to chase young kids who are playing Xbox and are fickle and hard to reach. But now we're seeing baby boomers starting to retire early and are ready, willing and able to enjoy life, including their favorite TV shows.

Kurtis: Of course you're preaching to the choir. I believe that one day there will be a tipping point and it will all flip over. Sure, everybody wants young people because they are forming their habits. But don't ignore the rest of the United States of America, or the rest of the world. I think it will happen one of these days. Another smart thing that Abbe and Bob have done is let Cold Case Files be the anchor and then surround it with young people, [such as] Dog the Bounty Hunter.

Brady: So do you have a TiVo? And what's your take on where TV is headed?

Kurtis: I do have a TiVo and HDTV for the games. I don't know what's going to happen with television. It makes me think of my own life. My wife and I didn't get married for a long time and we had two kids and sent them to a public school in our neighborhood in Chicago and yet we turned out to be the most stable couple of our crowd. Everybody else we knew from back then is divorced. It is interesting that when all is said and done, and the battle is over, we're the ones still standing. [laughs]